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Poster: snori Date: Jun 9, 2009 7:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Pink Floyd manager quote

Following the earlier thread on Softs and PF can anyone help with the name and the actual quote of a Pink Floyd manager from the mid sixties who visited San Francisco for its Psychedelic scene and made disparaging remarks along the lines of 'its all just 12 bar' ?

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Poster: Miss Divine Date: Jun 9, 2009 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

I think it was actually Roger Waters who said that.
I could be wrong, but it sticks out in my memory.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 10:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Can you two splain it a bit more? Inquiring minds want to know...

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Poster: Miss Divine Date: Jun 9, 2009 12:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

The Floyd went over to the States for a tour and after seeing a few West Coast groups, Roger Waters (or someone in the band's entourage) said that they all sounded boring and just a bunch of blues bands.

I think it may have been aimed at Moby Grape, but I can't find my copy of the book I read it in.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Interesting...I didn't think they meant the blues part literally, but certainly they were more experimental, in some sense, than most of the SF bands...I, of course, wouldn't say that there is much about the Eleven, or even ViolaLeeBlues, that is "just Blues"...hmmm...depends if they heard a 30' MidHr I suppose...

Thanks!

More if you find it! Would love to hear about it. Assume this is the trip when Syd wigs out, right? Was O'rourke the Mger after that trip?

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Poster: snori Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

This is a long piece I just found about the Floyd and the U.S at that time. It's long but quite interesting (though it doesn't mention Jenner, or Syd wigging out)and I don't know who the author is. BTW my 2 favourite pieces of Floyd would have to be 'Set the controls ... ' from Ummagumma, and 'Echoes'. Piper is awesome though.

First American Tour
The first American tour was a disaster from the start. A first series of dates scheduled for 22oct to 1 nov 1967 had to be canceled when the band failed to get their work permits ready on time.
There was some debate on whether the 1nov1967 (at the Whiskey a GoGo) had been canceled as well.
Jon Rosenberg and Vernon Fitch (amongst others) had this to say
[Vernon Fitch]
As best I can tell from my research, they arrived on Thursday, November 2, 1967.
Here’s four pieces of evidence that tend to support my theory:
According to producer Malcolm Jones, the Abbey Road Studio logs show Pink Floyd recording Apples and Oranges at Abbey Road Studios in London on October 30, and November 1, 1967.
According to Peter Albin, bass player of Big Brother and the Holding Company, Pink Floyd were at the Fillmore on Thursday, November 2nd, but did not play that night because all of their equipment had not yet arrived.
Dick Clark stated twice during his interview with the Pink Floyd on American Bandstand that they had only been in the country 2 days. This is an important piece of information because it contradicts the long standing belief that the American Bandstand appearance was on Monday, November 6th. Since American Bandstand was generally recorded on a Saturday (delayed broadcast was on Thursday nights), that would put the American Bandstand appearance on Saturday, November 4th, and Clark’s comments would support the arrival date of November 2nd.
Also on the American Bandstand appearance, Dick Clark asked Syd Barrett how long they would be in the U.S., and Barrett replied that they were here for 10 days. Richard Wright also stated during this interview that they were going to New York. Since their New York date was at the Cheetah Club on November 12th, for them to be in the country for 10 days as Barrett indicated, they would have arrived on November 2nd.
[Jon Rosenberg]
I disagree for several more reasons.
The band flew into Canada but had to cancel the first week of the tour due to “lack of proper work permits”. They returned to the UK and did one off-gig as long as they were waiting around: 28.10.67 Dunelm House, Durham University, Durham, Co. Durham, England. Flying back for the 30th show at the Whiskey would have been rough but do- able.
Bill Graham was furious with the screw up and canceled dates, and threatened to ban the group for life if they didn’t make it back for the next set of dates (2-4Nov67). This is from a book about Bill Graham, page unknown, and (I think) in notes in the recent “History of the Fillmore Posters” book. Damn good thing BG never went thru with ban, the Fillmore West shows are classics!
The “other” LA appearance at the “Cheetah Club” in Venice (Santa Monica) on 5Nov67 is documented in print. I found a review of the show (wildly positive!) years ago in the LA Free Press newspaper. The reporter states that this gig is (was) the only area appearance for the band. Strange he should forget about the one at the Whiskey 4 days before…
I’ve never seen one ad for any of the three reported Whiskey shows in the LA area underground papers. The Cheetah show is in several. The Cheetah ad says “On Sunday The Pink Floyd makes the L.A. debut direct from England”.
According to the EMI studio log (which logs in the tapes after each studio session, but could have been the next day) the band were at EMI on 30Oct thru 2Nov doing A&O (5 takes), Paint Box (2x), and an untitled song (3x). See Vernon’s point #1 and Malcolm Jones’ book on Syd for details.
[Vernon again]
There is one last piece of information that is related to this discussion. Tower Records held a press party at the Whiskey to celebrate the U.S. release of The Piper at the Gates of Dawn album. As Piper was released in the U.S. on October 21, 1967, I suspect that the party was held on that date. We know for a fact that Pink Floyd were not in the country on this date (they were playing concerts in the U.K. through October 28th). Perhaps people who remember going to see Pink Floyd at the Whiskey are remembering this event instead?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 5:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

I think of Set the Controls as being from the 2nd; is the Umma one a live one?

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Poster: snori Date: Jun 10, 2009 12:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

WT. Yes Ummagumma is a double - one disc live recorded in Birmingham (4 tracks, Astronomy Domine, Careful with that Axe, Eugene, Saucerful of Secrets, and Set the Controls ..).

The second disc is very experimental stuff from the studio. Again there are four pieces, I think each band member is responsible for one. A tad indulgent, some might say, but it has some good stuff.

The live disc is a must have.

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Jun 10, 2009 2:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Agreed - "The live disc is a must have" - throw the rest away, it don't get any better than Ummagumma Disc 1. Don't bother buying anything else after this album, save your money for Dead/Dead-related stuff. No offence Floyd fans, but it was going through the motions from then onwards ....... Accepted that the Dead had their peak too (ask 100 different Dead fans and get 50 answers for Cornell [yawn] and 50 other different answers) and then, after that peak (whichever one you settle on) there was a certain amount of 'going through the motions' but THEY are our favourite band and so THEY are forgiven.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Whoops--screwed up on the revision to my other post...meant to say my older brother saw the show when Syd goes whacky but he thought that everything was fine...then they stop and he didn't think it was obvious that they should have, and got pissed...hmmm, now not sure I have it right. Will have to ask him about it. Or do you two know the story?

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Poster: JC Edwards Date: Jun 9, 2009 3:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Pink Floyd = The most OVERRATED band in music history.

Not too mention the most morbid sounding!

Band's like Cream/early Fleetwood Mac et al could jam yes......but there wasn't a true Psychedelic one among them....especially Pink Floyd!

Their "Live in Pompei" was the closest they ever came; and that was minimal at best. The music was so structured, you could set up housekeeping!
Hell, they couldn't have taken their music to the edge and back again without the aid of a GPS.

It just sickens me how people jump on that PF band wagon and describe how much they "love" the most depressing band in history.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 3:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Hey JCE, I largely agree with that sentiment for post Syd, but I most vigorously disagree with it for the first two albums, which are anything but depressing, and show experimentation of immense levels...IMHO.

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Poster: JC Edwards Date: Jun 9, 2009 5:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Tell my man I will agree with you on Piper's.....but that's about all.

billyd.....Dark Side is the most overrated ALBUM of all time!
For Christ's sake you cannot even turn a radio on now without something from that or The Wall coming on every 30 F*CKING MINUTES! For me, as a musician, Pink Floyd = Top 40 FM Pop Music.

I will agree with you on the crap distilled in the 80's! What a bore of a decade.........best thing to come out of the 80's was Stevie Ray......and He's Gone too!!

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Poster: billydlions Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

David Gilmore replaced Syd, didn't he? I cant say I love PF, but I've always thought very highly of Gilmore as a guitar player.

Hey JCE...why are you sickened by this? They certainly had some good albums. It's hard to call them overrated when Dark Side has sold so many copies.

The most depressing music is the alternative shit from the '80's like The Cure...suicide music.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Yep, he was his HS buddy I think. I also thought highly of him...seemed like a good guy too, but I only know a bit of the last 35 yrs...The other guys sometimes seemed a bit off putting, but like what we spoke of above, hard to know what was real and what was distorted by the media, etc.

I will say that some of my "rejection" of them was a feeling of an almost "too pop" or "sell out" aspect (whatever the Hell that is) post Syd...does that make any sense? Might have been an over-reaction to popularity.

But, I stand by Syd as an amazing talent and innovator of immense proportions...the kinds of sounds he generated in the appropriate context of a song and the writing and so on and so forth...I really can't say enough about the guy. I always thought that everything they did post Syd was a pale immitation of the seeds he planted. Overstated no doubt, but certainly the band members acknowledged him in latter yrs...in a big way it seemed.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 9, 2009 7:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Coming from someone slightly younger, but you could also say the same about depressing "Old Testament masochism Bob" (Dylan), as Leary quipped.

I read about Syd on Wikipedia and listened to Wish You Were Here in honor of the posts today, to reconnect. I still like their stuff, maybe from formative listening to a hippie radio station in St Louis whose stations IDs were often snippets of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" and "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed." Not really pop ditties!

Jerry could be a downer too, but then "nothing comes for free." Sometimes it seems "your back might need protection" and one may need to time to ponder on the appearance of heaven and hell in this life and in the "bye & bye." Can you tell? Could Syd always?

This post was modified by spacedface on 2009-06-10 02:41:11

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 10, 2009 6:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

"The most depressing music is the alternative shit from the '80's like The Cure...suicide music.'

lol...great line (and very true).

As for Floyd...I can see where someone may not dig their sound, or not like all the concept album trappings, but I'm really puzzled by this attitude some people have that popularity automatically equals suckiness. Seems like it is applied selectively- shit, "Revolver" was about as poppy as an album could ever hope to be (even the afformentioned "Tomorrow Never Knows', for all it's trippiness, clocks in an a very radio friendly 2:57).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 10, 2009 8:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

I agree...that's why I always qualify it as a factor when I am diss-in some band. This was esp true for my friends in HS in the early 70s. We literally hated PFloyd and Led in part because of their pop following, and the complete dumbasses that spoke so highly of them.

Absurdly juvenile of us, but it was literally a case of "do you SEE who is raving about that band over there?!" "There is NO frickin way I am getting in on that!"

Now, we then, and later, tried to objectively evaluate such bands, but I am left with a residual "societal disdain factor" or some such that comes directly from those sorts of experiences...the flip side is there too: in a way, we were "cool" to be indulging in these anti-social, anti-establishment bands like the DEAD.

Not to make too much of all this, BUT it is defn there, and defn NOT defensible nor objective in its foundation for critique.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 10, 2009 5:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

It's been 20 yrs or so since I watched it but "Live in Pompei" was, as you implied, really good.
Also I recall an excellent bit where one of the band members is talking about the electronics that they use and cautioning that they can get burdensome for jamming and you have to walk a fine line between cool sounds and expression, or something to that extent. I kinda wonder if they got to caught up to much in the electronics part in the later years.
I think I remember this segment mostly because it seemed at the time I was watching it that Jerry might be having the same problem of overburdening himself with the midi stuff, when he first started to do it in 89. Mainly because he seemed to have troubles transitioning into it, although he did seem to get better at those transitions over time.

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Poster: snori Date: Jun 9, 2009 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

I was sort of half-remembering this as a scouting mission by a manager (possibly Peter Jenner now that I've looked up the time frame) with a view to getting the Floyd some bookings on the West Coast. But you know what they say about the sixties ... no I can't remember that either. It's quite possible that Miss D. has it right.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 9, 2009 2:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

I have a documentary that came out in '95 or so called "The History Of Rock & Roll" and in one episode on the psychedelic scene called "Blues In Technicolor" there is an interview with Pink Floyd's manager Pete Jenner. Here is a partial transcript:

Jenner:
"There was a sort of wildness about the British psychedelic scene, that was a sort of freedom of expression which you didn't come across in America. We thought that was all a part of the psychedelic experience, and I don't think really anyone did that at that time, maybe The Grateful Dead did in terms of guitar solos, but they tended again to improvise in a much more conventional manner, you know around sort of conventional chord sequences. I think the British stuff, you know "Chord sequences? What are they? We're just playing, man..."

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 9, 2009 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

didn't clapton also say some pretty derogatory things about the dead back in those days?

then again, I recall Jer knocking New Orleans as being overrated for music (it must have been tongue in cheek).

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Jun 9, 2009 2:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

what Clapton said was prtty ambiguous. Can't remember the exact words (devil being in the detail and all that) but it was something along the lines of 'all the States had were the Dead and so we took it (USA) by storm'. Could mean the Dead were (v)good but not enough to prevent a swing to Cream, or could mean 'all they had were the Dead' and that wasn't very much. I tend to go for (interpret he meant) the latter and although 'Layla' the album is one of my all time favourites, I have never forgiven Clapton the person (as opposed to the player) for slandering my even greater favourie - the Dead. Also not very happy about Clapton's minimal acknowledgement of Duane Allman's input to 'Layla' (read his book) but then time, drink & drugs may well have took their tollon his memory, but (2) Layla was Duane's tune (plus drummer & Coolidge and of course Bobby Whitlock's presence). Of course he was oh so complimentary of Garcia at the time of his death but he obviuosly didn't want to be seen saying the wrong thing. Q: Did Clapton ever do anything on a par with 'Layla' after DA's death? I know they only coincided for a relative moment but it was all downhill (creatively) for Clapton after Layla (& Duane) and I will stand by that.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 3:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

It's funny how you can find quotes going both ways for both sides of the pond. I always recall one by Lesh, which I can't find now, in which he says something to the effect that the Beatles were never really part of the revolution (whatever that means)...at some level, I agree (pop aspects), but still...other times you get a sense that they thought highly of them.

Bottom line is I imagine any number of them, both sides, saying good and bad things, and a lot is no doubt taken out of context.

And don't forget there were also wars between No CA and So CA as well...Doors vs DEAD, etc. NY vs West Coast, etc.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Here is Phil on the Beatles from the same documentary I mentioned earlier:

Phil:
"I don't know where you were the first time you ever heard "Tomorrow Never Knows", but a friend of ours pulled us in off the street in 1967 in the Haight, 1966 I think it was, pulled us in right off the street into a record store and said "You've got to listen to this! You've got to listen to this!" and it was "Tomorrow Never Knows". We felt very strongly at that time that The Beatles were on the same wavelength as us.."

Mountain Girl has also described the Acid Tests as featuring lots of Beatles music.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2009-06-09 23:30:52

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

I lived in Cleveland one summer (it felt much longer) and at the RNR Hall they had Linda Eastman's photos of the boys at 710 and surrounding environs, with a voice over by her husband and him describing what great guys they were, what a special time period it was, etc. He (Macca) seemed to have a genuine affection for them. Speaking of Brian Jones, her photo book has some great shots of him.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

A regular WC fields...[didn't he say he spent a year in Philadelphia one night?]

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Hey! That's it! SD--that was the one I was recalling that was positive...I knew it was something about a song or something similar...seems Phil was always doing that with songs. Didn't they start doing Dancin in the streets after him hearing it on the radio or some such?

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 9, 2009 4:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Phil on "Dancing In The Streets":

"We always thought of this as a kind of "hippie anthem" as much as anything else. I remember driving down a street in Santa Monica on the way to the beach sometime in '66, hearing it on the radio and thinking "We GOTTA do this tune!"

Phil from liner notes of "Fallout From The Phil Zone".

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 3:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Certainly Jerry and Mickey didn't return the favor...the story of them being at the Winterland show and Mickey saying to Jerry "this is the best fuckin' rock band in the world!" (Cream) and Jerry saying "tonight they are" which I think was insightful on any number of levels...

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 9, 2009 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Photobucket

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 9, 2009 3:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Great shot. Thanks.

Hey WT, Clapton/Winwood tour begins tomorrow night.... Willie Weeks on bass may be the best part. He's a monster.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 9, 2009 3:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd manager quote

Cool! See em in a few weeks! I'll ask him about those Jerry quotes...damn Brit.